Posted on September 7, 2023 by KylieMawdsley
The Top 5 White Cabinet or Trim Colors (Sherwin & Benjamin)
Choosing a white paint color for cabinets or trim can be a HARROWING experience. This is especially true if you aren’t starting from scratch and have to coordinate with existing, and possibly outdated, finishes. So, I’ve narrowed things down to a few of my fave, ‘go-to whites’ that should be white up your alley.
I ONLY use photos from my Online Paint Color Consulting clients to show you the most accurate versions of these colors.
1. BENJAMIN MOORE WHITE DOVE OC 17
White Dove is one of my TOP suggested shades of white paint color for cabinets, trims, doors, ceilings, AND walls!
Why?
Some whites are too stark or cold for the average home’s countertop and backsplash. Other whites are too warm. White Dove is the middle ground between too white and too warm with a passive approach. So, while it acts like white, it’s not stark nor overly creamy.
White Dove is also a great option if you want white walls, trims, and cabinets – all the same color. Its warmth and LRV suit various exposures and finishes, offering a softer approach than Pure White and Chantilly Lace.
These cabinets look a bit warmer than usual as the painter used a lacquer-based paint…
COLORS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO WHITE DOVE
It’s important to COMPARE whites when looking for your best shade. A white can look pretty darn neutral UNTIL you compare it to another, at which point it’s easier to see the undertones and temperature. Just remember, there are no MATCHES between brands – each white will have its own undertones and uniqueness.
- Sherwin Williams Alabaster
- Sherwin Williams Greek Villa
White Dove uppers, Benjamin Moore Antique Pewter lowers
FULL Paint Color Review of Benjamin Moore White Dove
Get your PEEL & STICK SAMPLE OF WHITE DOVE
2. SHERWIN WILLIAMS PURE WHITE 7005
Pure White is fantastic and one of my FAVES. This super popular white sits between White Dove’s warmth and Chantilly Lace’s simplicity. Pure White IS a warm white, but it’s one of the most subtle warm whites on the market.
Paint Color Review of Sherwin Williams Pure White
ARE THERE COLORS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO PURE WHITE
Welllll, not really – like White Dove, Pure White is really a creature unto itself. This doesn’t mean there aren’t some great colors to COMPARE with, as some countertops need more warmth than Pure White offers, but no other white is really ‘the same.’
- Benjamin Moore White Dove (which is a bit warmer)
- Sherwin Williams White Snow (which is brighter)
Get your PEEL & STICK SAMPLE OF PURE WHITE
3. BENJAMIN MOORE CHANTILLY LACE OC 65
Chantilly Lace is a classic, timeless shade of white. While it does have a touch of softness to it (which we know about thanks to its LRV of 90 – if it were a true white, it would be a higher number), Chantilly Lace acts like white without being stark or cold.
Many people find TRUE whites a bit too stark for their cabinets or trim – and they can be, depending on the surrounding finishes. Chantilly Lace is popular because it gives a cleaner contrast with finishes (compared to softer, warmer whites), without being edgy or harsh. This is because while Chantilly Lace ‘looks’ pretty darn white, it has a wink of softness to it!
FULL Paint Color Review of Benjamin Moore Chantilly Lace
Get your PEEL & STICK SAMPLE OF CHANTILLY LACE
NEED HELP? Check out my ONLINE PAINT COLOR CONSULTING PACKAGES – let me tell you what to do!
4. BENJAMIN MOORE CLOUD WHITE CC-40
While Cloud White isn’t one of my TOP 3, it’s a great option for kitchens that need a more obvious warmth. Cloud White can look like a real white UNTIL you place it next to a real white (like paper or my butt cheeks). If you didn’t know yet that it’s that type of blog – now you know (wink wink).
Cloud White has a subtle yellow/creamy undertone with a grounded neutral base, making it less stark than a traditional white. However, if you already have ‘white’ trim, appliances, or windows, you WILL notice the difference.
See more Cloud White here: A Maple Kitchen Makeover with Cloud White
FULL Paint Color Review of Benjamin Moore Cloud White
WHAT COLORS ARE SIMILAR TO CLOUD WHITE?
- Sherwin Williams Alabaster – just a wink softer and creamier
- Benjamin Moore Simply White. It has the warmth, but it’s cleaner and brighter, so the yellow can show up at the party a bit more
Get your PEEL & STICK SAMPLE OF CLOUD WHITE
5. SHERWIN WILLIAMS ALABASTER 7008
As it relates to the BEST paint colors for cabinets, Alabaster is the softest, warmest white. This is one reason it’s a hit with my clients who have homes from the 1990s and early 2000s, as it tends to suit many finishes from these times.
See my client, Jenna Christian’s beautiful home and style HERE.
Alabaster has an LRV of 82, so while it’s white, it’s a soft, dark white. Will it ‘act like white?’ Yes, as long as your idea of ‘white’ is, soft, gentle, and warm. However, if you put Alabaster with a whiter shade of white (i.e., GE Cafe white appliances/most white subway tiles), it will look softer and almost creamy in comparison.
Alabaster trim with Sherwin Williams Agreeable Gray walls – notice how soft and subtle the trim looks.
COLORS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO ALABASTER
- Sherwin Williams Greek Villa
- Benjamin Moore Cloud White
- Benjamin Moore White Dove
FULL Paint Color Review of Sherwin Williams Alabaster
Get your PEEL & STICK SAMPLE OF ALABASTER
LASTLY, there is one color that’s not on this list, but it should be, or maybe it WILL be, in the near future…
SHERWIN WILLIAMS WHITE SNOW 9541
White Snow is a new shade of white that’s only available in Sherwin Williams Emerald Designer’s Edition (along with eight other NEW shades of white). Because it’s new, and it’s not EASY to sample other than through Samplize, I haven’t had any clients use it (yet). It’s also the MOST expensive line of paint they carry – but damn, does it have a beautiful finish.
White Snow is awesome. It looks like white and acts like white, but it isn’t stark like true or cold whites or overly warm like some other shades. It could be GREAT in a variety of kitchens and I can’t wait to see it in action!
COLORS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO WHITE SNOW
I highly recommend comparing White Snow to several other shades. Noticing the difference between whites is what helps you see which one your interior finishes gravitate towards.
- Benjamin Moore Simply White is similar, but a bit warmer
- Benjamin Moore Chantilly Lace is similar in depth, but not as warm
- Sherwin Williams Extra White is BRIGHTER and whiter
FULL Paint Color Review of White Snow
WHY IS WHITE SNOW SO HARD TO SAMPLE?
You can’t get paper chip samples, sample pots, or quartz of White Snow made (Sherwin should REEEALLY remedy this). This means that aside from Samplize, the ONLY way to see White Snow in action is to purchase a full gallon. At $125 CDN, that’s a huge stretch for the average person. Sampling needs to be EASY.
Get your PEEL & STICK SAMPLE of White Snow
READ MORE
SHOULD You Paint Your Kitchen Cabinets White? And Which White is Best?
The 3 Best Off-White Paint Colors for Trims, Walls, and More...
3 STEPS: Choose the Best White for Your Cabinets, Trims, or Walls
The ULTIMATE GUIDE to White Paint Colors
Not sure which white is best for your kitchen cabinets?
Check out my affordable Online Color Consulting!
Chat soon,
Kylie M E-Design, Interiors and Decorating Online, Virtual Paint Color Consultant Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams specialist
Originally written in 2017, updated in 2019
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Hi Moira, Seashell and Feather Down are quite different from each other. Seashell has a more grayed out yellow tone to it whereas Feather Down has a tan/orange feel to it (your cabinets won’t look those colours, it’s just the soft undertones). Seashell can work on cabinets but I think Feather Down is too heavy for a traditional ‘cream’ cabinet. If you’re looking for a cream that isn’t too yellow or pinkish consider Glacier White – one of my faves!
Hope that helps!
Hi Kylie! Is creamy a good color for kitchen cabinets?
Author
Hi Sue, yes, as long as you are okay with the slightly stronger yellow/warm undertone!
I have a black granite. What color would you suggest for cabinets? I love ultra modern, but my husband, not so much.
Author
Hi Tatum! It does depend on your flooring, backsplash, exposure and what not, but generally speaking, for black granite, I might look at SW Pure White which is white, but has just a wink of warmth in it that softness it, so it isn’t cold or icy. 🙂
What do you suggest. I have black granite counters with subway white tiles as backsplash and my flooring is a chocolate wood looking tile. I would like a white that is kinda glossy but not too much glossy??? If you can understand that??? Also something that can be cleaned easily.
Author
Hi Jackie, for questions like yours, I do refer to my E-design services! I try to give as much complimentary info as I can on my blog and if that doesn’t work, it might be time for a closer look! https://www.kylieminteriors.ca/online-decorating-design-services/
~Kylie
I am afraid that I will paint my oak (orangey) cabinets white and then soon….in a year or two, find that painted cabinets are going out and wood is back in! Maybe even warmer colours like orange??
Author
Hi Joan! Well, believe it or not, I do like my readers to keep their oak cabinets when I think they are worth keeping. I’ve had clients hire me to have their cabinets painted and I say ‘hold up, you might want to keep this’. However, there have been MANY times where paint is just the thing! Of the oaks, the orange one (and some of the yellow ones) are the ones that are least likely to come back soon (in my opinion). Some oaks have more of a ‘brown’ look, so they aren’t overly warm, and if any, I think it’s those ones that have a good life to them. As for white cabinets, it seems that trends come and go, and while some go out COMPLETELY, white keeps staying around in some form or another. Generally speaking of the 2, white is a safer bet than the orange oak. I hope that helps!
Hi! I’m wanting to paint my orangey oak kitchen cabinets white. The back splash is creamy white and granite is that multi colored cream, black tan color. Pretty main stream hard to explain without me sending a picture. Trying to decide what color white to get to match that. Also, would we need to paint The pantry door and trim on the windows the same color as the cabinets? Thanks!
Author
Hi Heathr, thank you for asking and you’re right, it’s hard without pictures, otherwise I’m really just guessing. AND I actually have an e-design business just for questions like yours! If you’re interested the link is here, I’d love to help! https://www.kylieminteriors.ca/online-decorating-design-services/
~Kylie
Is it necessary to wax or somehow seal the painted cabinets? I am thinking about hiring this out and was wondering if this step is necessary. Thanks, Lyn
Author
Hi Lyn, not at all! The new cabinet paints are SO hardy and are built to last as long as the prepwork is done properly!
I had my cabinets done two years ago and they used a Behr cabinet paint and did not seal them and within six months we had worn through the paint right down the to cherry wood around all the knobs. I am now having to redo them myself and will be adding a coat of polyurethane. Now, it could be that the painters just did a crappy job, but I’m not taking any chances this time. Just speaking from my own experience, of course. I’m no expert.
Hi! Just wondering… Do you think the yellowing that happens with oil based paints is enough of a downside to go with the less durable water based paints?
Author
Hi again Cristal! They funny thing is that many brands won’t sell oil based paints anymore. The new latex paints are made so hardy and are often called ‘Alkyd Emulsions’ as they spread more evenly than some of the older latex products and have durable finishes. I personally would never do oil again, after using the likes of BM Advance…
I am having the hardest time choosing a white paint. Went with white dove, but worried is not as crisp to make the trim pop. I actually like the color the of the mdf/ pine primed white trim. 😉 I wish I knew what color it was. I want my white to pop. Can you offer any suggestions? What white paint would you choose if you were painting your the trim and cabinets in your house today. We are using aurea stone divine for the countertops. I have kelly moore matched revere pewter on the wall (Funny but the KM matched did not turn out the same as BM’s color, but I actually like it better) .
Thank you so very much for your blog! LOVE reading all your posts!!!
What “type” of paint do you recommend for hardiness. My daughter had hers spray painted by a cabinet maker and they’re chipping like crazy! Thanks.
Author
Hi Linda! When it comes to cabinets, it’s a blend of quality paint and GOOD prepwork. If the prepwork isn’t 100%, there isn’t any paint that will save you. Sanding/cleaning/high quality primer, those are the essentials. From there, I go to BM Advance for a hardy top finish. Any painted finish will chip, but it shouldn’t be THAT bad 😉
I have maple cabinets and alot of them. I have honey oak floors and the countertop is Gallio Ornamental. Typical early 2000 kitchen. I want to paint the cabinets. At first I was thinking Edgecomb Gray and now I’m going back to Dove White. My walls will be a warmer greige either SW Assesible Beige or Edgecomb Gray. I’m fighting with the warm tones in the floor and the granite. Any suggestions? I also have a long buffet in the kitchen that I was thinking of doing a different color… maybe a blue/gray or Chelse Gray or that new blue that I see on pinterest. Thoughts?
Will white dove be a noticeable difference with white windows? I love warm, creamy white but have white windows above my kitchen sink
Author
Hi Brooke, it can depend on the brand of window, but I would expect that you will see a shift – not by much though. I have white windows and White Dove trim and it is a BARELY THERE shift.
Hello!
I have white dove trim and want to paint my orangey oak cabinets white. ( very warm granite countertops and wood beams on the ceiling)
I have poured over your articles but am unsure which white would work. I don’t want to overpower the dove white nor have the cabinets look dirty.
What do you suggest?
Have you worked with painting maple cabinets white where there is a natural oak floor and natural oak trim on windows (old style)? Maybe white dove vs cloud white?
Author
Oooo, that’s a tough one as all of a sudden your cabinets are the odd man out! I would recommend going with a soft warmer off-white rather than a white, just to reduce this a bit :).
Hi Patricia, we have the same combo in a summer cottage and chose to paint the walls Benjamin Moore Simply White. I can attest to the colour being a perfect white without it being stark and looks great on large walls. It might be a nice choice for your cabinets.
HELLO,
I am painting my kitchen and family room Winchester Tan (BM), and i would like to pick the right white to pain golden oak cabinets white, currently I am looking at (BM) Simply White, but what color trim. My granite is black, and oak flooring throughout. Would there be a better Cabinet and Trim color. HElp… i am terrible at this. MAny thanks
Hi Kylie! So much love for all you do for all of us! Quick question – can BM White Dove walls work with SW Extra White cabinets with white subway backsplash? I don’t really want to put Extra White on the walls, I want something warmer but not yellow (that’s what we all say!). Granite is white-black-taupe Verona. Thanks a bunch!
Author
Hmmmm. Makes me a bit nervous in that the warmth of White Dove could set off the cool vibe of Extra White, whereas Extra White will set off the warmth of White Dove. Will this be ‘bad’…no, but i just don’t know if it will be that good as they might just seem like a mismatch – too much the same (being white) but different undertones. Makes me nervous… :).
What white paint will not cast a yellow tone in my kitchen?? I have ultra white trim. I tried ballet white paint on the cabinets and it looked really yellow. My floors are neutral warm..
Thanks… I was thinking chantilly lace???
My kitchen has a lot of natural light and faces south..
Hi Kylie! I am stuck on a white for my cabinets. I just put in LVP flooring in.Med brown color and have granite countertops that are almost blk. We want to paint the island a Chelsea or Cinder gray and will change the island countertop to a white quartz with a bit of gray. Any suggestions for the white paint color? Will Chantilly lace be took Stark.? I am also thinking of simply white or BM Alabaster..
I want to paint my new house in Mindful Gray. I have 13ft ceilings in kitchen and living area open concept with cedar wood beams. I really love Alabaster for my kitchen cabinets and trim. Do you think the Alabaster will go with the Mindful? Thank you!
Author
Oooo, if you mean SW Alabaster, it’s ‘okay’, but I find it a bit warm for Mindful and would lean more into SW Pure White :). And definitely not BM Alabaster!
I’m searching for a creamy white for the exterior of our house and lighter white trim. Would BM linen white work? What are your thoughts about Chantilly white BM and Simply white
Thanks
I think your best the of all blogs.
Stainless steel everything in kitchen white counters.
Not crazy about gray. Want paint color that will warm up my ugly kitchen cabinets.
This blog is my new best friend! I have been devouring your posts as we have been planning a complete kitchen re-do. We are installing Caesarstone London Grey quartz countertops in a kitchen/living/dining room whose main source of natural light is east-facing windows. Torn between BM White Dove which is more ‘matchy’ to the counter and BM Simply White which has a bit more of a contrast. Worried White Dove will be too yellow and Simply White will not work with the east-facing natural light. They both ‘look’ good. Advice?
Hi Nancy, did you decide? And what backsplash are you using? I am installing Colonial White granite that has whites, beiges, creams, black, and purple. (Sounds like a mess, but pretty…). Curious to what you went with…Thank you!
I have been looking at houses for sale online and if I see another kitchen with gray walls and white kitchen cabinets I am going to drown myself in a bath tub full of vodka.
Author
Well, you gave me my morning giggle – well done! Yes, it is SO nice to see wood cabinets come back in style. I did some in our bar area, just to do something different and i LOOOOVE them!
Thursday, July 9, 2020
3:28 PM
Hello Kylie! THANK YOU for your great advice. So appreciative of your knowledge and the humor to relieve this decorating stress! 😉 I’m replacing your favorites (Venetian Gold counters and orange, cathedral arched oak cabinets) with Colonial White Granite (warm and soft with cloudy grays, green undertones, purple garnets that I don’t love but accepting b/c it’s better than venetian gold). Wish I could justify quartz for my home…anyway, I have BM Vanilla Milkshake trim and SW Anew Gray walls. The vanilla milkshake isn’t common but love how it looks. Anything was better than the orange oak trim. Would you suggest vanilla milkshake cabinets (some areas are close to trim & doors), simply white, or white dove? I still need to get the backsplash (MAJOR CRY ON CHOOSING THAT ONE!). Any advice would be so helpful; praying for your response!
Hi Kylie! I have learned so much from all of your articles! We are considering painting our kitchen cabinets white. We have white crown molding already in the kitchen that flows into a hallway as well as molding around the entry to our great room and dining room (and white doors throughout). I assume I should match the cabinets to the molding, but how do I best determine the current color of the molding? The kitchen has northern exposure with a decent size window as well as a bay window in the breakfast nook (or whatever it is called these days – the place where our kitchen table resides). All these white paints are making me want to just stop and drink some wine!
Author
Hi Lisa! Well, first off, wine can definitely help ;). Here’s what I would do. I would go to the paint store (I’d hit two – BM and SW) and pick up:
1. Their whites white (BM Chantilly Lace and SW High Reflective White)
2. Warm versions (BM Cloud White, White Dove and Simply White / SW Alabaster, Pure White and Dover White)
3. cooler versions (BM Super White/Decorators White / SW Extra White)
Bring those home and stick them on your trim to see which one blends the MOST! It can be tricky as the sheen of your trim can skew things, but that will be as close as you can get. You can also take a piece of trim into the paint store and have them colour match it, but I’ve seen some PRETTY HOT MESSES that way, you have to really double-check it on a larger scale.
I hope that helps!
Thank you so much! I know we are on the cooler version, so now it’s down to figuring out which one works best. Do you have any advice on picking the one that blends well but isn’t too stark since we have northern exposure?
Oh my Lord, I need a nipple on my Prosecco bottle! We just had Taj Mahal quartzite counters and gray and white calcatta marble subway style in maple which translates to gray and white with an occasional light maple vein. Now between age and the new installs, our cabinets have gone yellow (formerly PPG Desert Fawn-Older color) .our Walls are Mesa Tan (SW) and I am thinking of a change there as well. My window which was just installed faces N.E. but very little direct sun comes in.
ANYWAY, help with white trim color! Considered Arcade or Ibis prior to reading your blog. I love your blog! Paint selection is a trial.
Author
Well, if THIS isn’t the funniest comment I’ve read in a while, I don’t know what is! Taj Mahal is aaaaamazing! As for trim colour, I tend to say pretty traditional for MASS versatility, rather than picking up whites that could flash pink or anything scary. Check out the likes of BM Simply White or SW Pure White :).
Hi Kylie
I am repainting my white kitchen. Currently the cabinets are a different white than the walls. Is it ok to have the walls, ceiling and cabinets different or can/should they be the same white? The two whites I like are White Dove and Simply White. If the cabinets where WD would they look ok by the SW walls?
J
Author
Hi Janet! I do get a BIT nervous with mix and match whites. Simply White is cleaner/whiter and that touch more yellow than White Dove and I might worry a bit about White Dove looking just a bit dingy in comparison. I’d get a quart mixed up of White Dove in satin finish and do 2 coats on a sample board, tape it up on the wall with Simply White and see how they flow :).
I am going to go with your suggestion and have cabinets painted SW alabaster. The house is open concept with a full wall of windows. I want a warm white for the walls. Should I paint them alabaster also?
Author
You betcha – and I would love to see photos when it’s all done!
Trying to figure out what undertones I am looking for if I have more yellow butcher block countertops. Thank you for your help!
Is Mascarpone BM a flexible white paint for trim?
Author
I wouldn’t do it – too yellow 🙂
Hello, Kylie,
Will you please tell me the color of the blue island in the first picture (under SW High Reflective White)?
I really appreciate your help 🙂
Hi! I’m getting ready to do a kitchen remodel and I’ve been reading your blog (which is super helpful!) and now I’m scared/ stuck. My doors and trim in my entire house were all painted by the previous owners in what appears to be SW Crisp Linen. Which I’ve actually never minded and most people identify as “white” when they come over. I want white/cream cabinets in this remodel and was just going to do the cabinets in the same Crisp Linen as the trim and doors but I’m thinking you would tell me NOT to do that 😬 since crisp linen has a pinky/peach undertone. What white/cream should I do on the cabinets so as not to clash with the crisp linen doors and trim? Floor is a traditional warm medium brown wood look LVP, countertops are black soapstone with cream and green veining. I plan to do a beadboard backsplash in the same color as the cabinets so I guess I’m stuck on that too 🫤
I’m painting my walls SW Alabaster. What white would you suggest for cabinets & trim?
Author
Personally, I would stick with Alabaster. When you mix whites, one exposes the undertones in another. The only other type of white you could use would be a brighter warm white, but it would make Alabaster look more yellow/cream, just in comparison. If you keep Alabaster as the WHITEST white in the space, it acts more as it should.
Hi there,
In my kitchen I have urbane bronze walls – there are not many wall surfaces, the backsplash is a high vertical full wall design in white octagonal tile. The cabinets were already painted an off white like alabaster but it’s different and more creamy than the backsplash . I want to repaint them so there are not competing whites. This kitchen is open concept and will flow into a living area with white dove walls. Any suggestions for the kitchen cabinets ?
Author
Hi Renee, your BEST plan of attack will be to find a white that blends with your tile. If it’s not the same, it will look either more yellow, creamy, dingy, etc… of course you could do a NON-white, in which case your countertop will call the big shots! If you like the idea of white cabinets, SW Extra White and High Reflective White are often similar to ‘white tile’ – same with BM Chantilly Lace. However, once you throw White Dove in the mix, you’re back mixing warm whites/bright whites again. Sometimes there isn’t a happy medium between what’s there and something bigger has to shift – either White Dove OR consider non-white cabinets that go with the countertop :).
Hi Kylie. I just want to say your articles on kitchen cabinets, specific BM color shades etc helped me immensely while planning a kitchen reno. I tend to gravitate towards dramatic color flare, your blog kept me grounded and reasonable. Thank you for sharing all this useful info. Much appreciated
Author
Jana, what a nice note to get. I do get soooo many comments asking for help, and a note like this just lights up my heart – thank you 🙂
I have spent years studying your amazing site, but I still can’t make a choice for most of my painting decisions! However, I did use White Snow based on your analysis in a post when the new paint line first came out. It is beautiful! I am very sensitive to the yellow in Simply White, but White Snow is a definite white in my west facing room. So Pretty. I’ll be changing out all the Simply White to White Snow. Your description of how you used White Dove in your lake house almost swayed me in that direction, but I’m so glad I went with White Snow. Thank you for sharing your talent with us-it is greatly appreciated. Now back to worrying over grays that go with slate fireplace surrounds!
Author
Ooo Laine, I’m SO happy to hear this! If you happen to have a few photos of it, I would be SO EXCITED as (as you know), I don’t have any of it in action! If that’s not your comfort zone, I totally get it :).
I’m so happy you’re happy! As for the grays, slate USUALLy likes grays wtih a slight blue-green undertone (an undertone that tends to pop more in gray). Look at SW Roycroft Pewter, BM Kitty Gray (stronger again). Sooooome slates can handle a slightly warm gray like Amherst Gray or Kendall Charcoal, as long as the look a bit green with your slate (not violet).
Too funny-I truly have a totally defective undertone detector! 🙂 About 2 months ago I finally had what I thought was an ‘Eureka Moment’ and decided slate must have a violet undertone. I’ve spent the last 3 weeks staring at Big Chill and Light French Gray, super convinced that one of them had to be right. Hence years of indecisiveness! I will definitely get the Samplize for your suggestions. I have a few more touches to finish in the room with White Snow and then I’ll try photographing it. Thank you for the time you took to reply.